--- title: The football argument that goes in circles — a lesson of Mova's school · trees and pragmatics description: «The football argument that goes in circles», a lesson of the world course of Mova's primary school, sentence by sentence with dependency trees and pragmatics. It begins: Two boys argue: "Messi's better because he's the best." "No, Ronaldo's better because he's the greatest." For fifteen minutes. --- [Mova](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/) · [this page in HTML](https://mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/) [home](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/) / [corpora](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/) / [school](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/) / [World](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/) / The football argument that goes in cir… # The football argument that goes in circles Lesson 170 of the world course of Mova's primary school: 23 sentences, each with its syntax tree and pragmatics. The lessons are written for Mova, and their agreed trees are part of Mova corpus 0.4 (CC BY-SA 4.0). How Mova does on its tests: [the lesson at school](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/school-run/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/). - [0](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/0/) — Two boys argue: "Messi's better because he's the best." "No, Ronaldo's better because he's the greatest." For fifteen minutes. - [1](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/1/) — Each one just says his answer again in other words, so nothing moves. - [2](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/2/) — That is going in circles. - [3](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/3/) — Other tricks keep a playground argument spinning: throwing out the games you lost ("those don't count, the ref was bad"), making up a rule after you lose ("there's a base now"), and shouting louder ("In!" "Out!" "In!") when neither of you saw it. - [4](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/4/) — Some arguments are about a word, not a fact. - [6](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/6/) — Is a hot dog a sandwich? - [7](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/7/) — If you don't agree what the word means, you can argue all day and nobody can win. - [8](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/8/) — The way out is to say what you count: goals, trophies, results, the league table. - [9](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/9/) — Check facts before using them: Messi has scored headers, including one in the 2009 Champions League final. - [10](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/10/) — And agree the rules before the game, not after. - [11](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/11/) — Kids mock the loop, not the fan: "Lads, 'best' and 'greatest' are the same word. - [12](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/12/) — You've been arguing with a thesaurus for fifteen minutes." - [13](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/13/) — Repeating your conclusion in other words as the reason is circular reasoning, or going in circles. - [14](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/14/) — Throwing out the results that go against you, or inventing a rule after you lose, is moving the goalposts. - [15](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/15/) — If you only count wins, every team in the world "always wins"; a fair count includes wins and losses. - [16](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/16/) — Saying something louder does not make it truer; if nobody saw clearly, agree a fair way to settle it, like a replay or a coin toss. - [18](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/18/) — Lionel Messi has scored headers, including one in the 2009 Champions League final against Manchester United. - [19](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/19/) — Check a fact before you argue with it: one false "fact" makes the whole argument wobble. - [20](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/20/) — Big clubs often have more fans because they come from big cities or won a lot long ago; who is better this season shows in the league table. - [21](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/21/) — Claims nobody can check, like "my dad's got a hundred black belts", are not real arguments. - [22](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/22/) — Goalkeepers are part of the football team, and the rules let them handle the ball in their own penalty area. - [23](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/23/) — Changing what a word means so that you win is a trap called "no true Scotsman"; arguing about a word nobody has defined is a verbal dispute. - [24](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/170-the-football-argument-that-goes-in-circles/24/) — Asking "what do we each mean by the word?" often shows that both sides are right in their own way. - ← previous: [Bets, dares and silly reasons](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/169-bets-dares-and-silly-reasons/) - next →: ["I'm due a win": the gambler's fallacy](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/171-im-due-a-win-the-gamblers-fallacy/) - ↑ back to [World](https://md.mova.elamur.ai/free/en/corpora/school/world/)